Reactive Attachment Disorder, RAD Blog - Feedback needed please!!!

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Reactive Attachment Disorder Blog

05/10/07

Feedback needed please!!!

Posted by : Nancy Spoolstra in Reactive Attachment Disorder Blog at 10:00 pm , 668 words, 170 views
Categories: Support, My family

My blood pressure is about double right now and I need some feedback. Let me explain…

Tonight was our foreign exchange student’s choir show. Julie did a great job and I was there to videotape and watch the senior class’s special tribute. After the show, everyone headed to the foyer to connect up with their students. Who should spy me first but Amy? Amy was there for a friend of hers… a girl she met last spring semester when Amy attended school. In fact, Amy spent a month with this girl’s family when her time with us ran out and Amy had no other arrangements made…

Anyway, according to Julie, Amy sat by herself the entire show, but did manage to point out to Julie where I was sitting. Amy didn’t sit with her friend’s family either… just by herself.

Immediately after spotting me Amy comes up and gives me one of those awkward, I’m-doing-this-because-it-is-expected hugs and quickly informs me she won’t be spending Mother’s Day with us because she has to work. "They have no shift leaders and they need her." But, in the next breath she tells me she is working on getting off work for the ten days we will be in Colorado in June. Funny, I don’t remember asking her to go with us. In fact, I couldn’t have asked her because I haven’t seen her nor heard a word from her in weeks. (And I did send her the card I mentioned I would send...) She did tell Kyle that she wasn’t going to be getting together with us for Mother’s Day, but she didn’t manage to call me or include me in that conversation. She didn’t expect to see me tonight, as she forgot Julie was in the choir. Ooops! I wonder how the “I-won’t-be-there-for-Mother’s-Day” message was supposed to find me?

SPONSOR

Now, I’m really not shocked nor am I really even that bummed that she won’t be there on Sunday. As I said, we are persona non grata… she doesn’t call or initiate anything during normal times. She only calls when Kyle or Stephanie are going to be home. She only wants to see them. Nothing is any different now than it was for all those years we shared space with her—except one thing. I HAVE DIFFERENT OPTIONS NOW.

I don’t mind having her over here when other family members are here, and I know I can return her to her apartment whenever I feel the need to do so. But I am highly resentful at the prospect of her assuming she has an invitation and a free ride and a meal ticket to Colorado just because she is talking to Kyle! I spoke with Kyle and he admitted and apologized for overstepping his boundaries by essentially inviting her.

Kyle and Marie like the idea of us being a “complete family” but that means more to me than just bodies in space. Frankly, guys, I have no interest in taking Amy with us. Not at this point. Someone needs to convince me I should. And why I should. If she can’t get off one day of work this Sunday, what is so different about ten days in June? She thinks she’s due a paid vacation… Lord knows she can't afford not to be working. She told Stephanie she hadn't quit school, she just "hadn't been in awhile because she was behind in rent." She left it to Stephanie to connect the dots... but no matter how you connect them, being behind in rent means you don't blow off work. The difference is she wants to see the siblings. I don’t want to be a meal ticket. And frankly, I really don’t want to see her hanging out of her clothes all week…

Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms? Can you tell I’m not a happy camper?????

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22 comments

Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: John [Member]

There is an old saying, 'Don't accept unacceptable behavior'. I am confused, if you and your husband didn't invite her, how is she invited? You finally have choices that you should have, and Amy has the opportunity to get a growing up lesson, treat people like dodo, and they aren't going to want you around. Good luck, it is always so much easier to kibitz than to do. John

Permalink 05/10/07 @ 23:02

Comment from: Julie Crowley [Member]

· http://stepparent.adoptionblogs.com/

If the only contact I got was popping out of the woodwork to say "hey I heard about the vacation so I will take some time off so you can pay my way..." then NOPE, I would not even entertain the idea. If she wants to pay her own way and meet everyone there, she is an adult and that is her choice. But I would not stand to be nothing more than a bank, you want the perks of family, well then you actually have to act like family...to the WHOLE family.

If she is looking for the perks of having a sibling relationship then she can ask them to take lots of pictures on the trip mom and dad are paying for, and rub it in her face that she didn't go when everyone gets back, that is what sibs do!

Permalink 05/10/07 @ 23:20

Comment from: Jan Baker [Member]

· http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/

Okay, I will be the different one. First, sounds like you are hurt because she is not spending Mothers' Day with you. Is it worth making a big deal about it though?

You said she was not invited, right? Isn't it a good sign that she feels like automatically as part of the family she is welcome? Do people usually invite their children on a vacation? Couldn't her wanting to go be a way of reaching out and wanting to connect with the rest of the family? If you do consider having her there, could you attach some conditions? Like wearing clothing you do not hate?

No one should talk you into wanting her there. If she is there and you resent her being there that would not be a good situation. Are you convinced that she would ruin the vacation for you? Could it be good for you and her?

Tough love has never been my thing - but I did not need it with my children. Your situation is entirely different, and I know little how raising troubled children. If I were in your shoes and felt that she would spoil my vacation, I might feel as you do. But, I see her wanting to come as a positive sign.

Just offering some different thoughts and not intending to be critical - know that.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 00:48

Comment from: Kathleenb [Member]

My family drove from IN to the FL Keys for spring break last month. DD#2, RAD, 17, is living in her 3rd out of home placement - this one in town, where she's attending a local public high school and so she has the same days off as the rest of the kids.

The girls' home where she's living managed to find alternate arrangments for her, and we did not take her. We did, however, take alon my b-daughter's girl friend so she would have someone her own age and gender to have fun with. B-dau is also 17. Our other four are boys 19, 16, 12, and 12. NO ONE in our family but the 12yo bio bro wanted her to come along. At first, dh wanted to bring her and I was going to suck it up and deal with it - but when all the other kids said they didn't want her either... well, we didn't bring her. And dh explained that she'd even alienated the bio's so much that they wanted a peaceful vacation w/o her. Short visits they can do - but not a whole week.

It was one of the best vacations we've had in a long, long time. Wonderful, relaxing, fun, stress-free.

I don't think Nancy's reaction to the vacation assumption is due to hurt over Mother's Day - it's a simple coincidence that both comments occurred at the same time and in the same blog. Taking along an Amy or my Maria might not end up with them ruining the vacation for everyone, but Mom would probably be dealing with PTSD all week waiting for the other shoe to drop. And make no mistake, Mom would get the brunt of anything Amy or Maria did - might be sweetness and light to everyone else, but Mom would be punished, one way or another.

I would tell her that when she begins to contribute to and participate in family life other than just when it benefits her, then you'll take her along for a vacation. But her own contribution and participation have to come first. Period.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 05:56

Comment from: akamom [Member]

I don't think you're over-reacting, Nancy. If I were in your shoes I would have a serious talk to Kyle about boundaries. In a way, he was being manipulative, also. He has backed you into a corner. I would call Amy and tell her, that Kyle invited her, without consulting you. I'd be honest and tell her that she's not invited and why. You know your daughter, so I'm sure you can state this to her in a way that will produce the least amount of fallout. If you decide to uninvite, I hope she doesn't use this, to manipulate, other family members (Kyle and Maria), into believing that she is the "mistreated scapegoat", in the family. You have empathy!

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 06:28

Comment from: scrapsbynobody [Member]

· http://scrapsbynobody.blogspot.com/

I think you know exactly what it is, and you also know exactly what you have to do. The problem is, that you are presented with no "good" options. If you don't have her come, you feel bad for obvious reasons. If you do have her come, you know she will be a wet blanket and be using you. So you end up feeling rotten no matter how you slice it. And the whole Mother's Day thing is just the icing on that particular cake. But it is what it is...and you just have to move forward and pray that the choices you make are the ones that honor God and your family, knowing that personal comfort often gets sacrificed no matter which way you go.

I don't think you need feedback. I think you are hoping for a fresh set of eyes to see a "good" solution that maybe you haven't thought of. But you probably already know there really isn't one. Or maybe you are looking for confirmation of the choice you are leaning toward. But you also know the hard truth about THAT. There will be folks that understand your reasoning, and those who will criticize. Isn't that a huge part of this territory too?

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 06:29

Comment from: Nancy Spoolstra [Member]

· http://attachment-disorder.adoptionblogs.com/

"I don't think you need feedback. I think you are hoping for a fresh set of eyes to see a "good" solution that maybe you haven't thought of. But you probably already know there really isn't one. Or maybe you are looking for confirmation of the choice you are leaning toward. But you also know the hard truth about THAT. There will be folks that understand your reasoning, and those who will criticize. Isn't that a huge part of this territory too?"

OHHH, this is so right on... but I really hadn't realized how correct you are until you wrote it. There are no good answers, I'm cooked any way I go. I am hoping for some magic bullet and I know there isn't one and I know that I will get flack no matter what. Lovely.

I also agree with akamom, Kyle did manipulate, perhaps knowingly and perhaps unknowingly... but he did. Interesting point.

I appreciate the responses. I'm afraid there will be many more situations like this in the future, and we need to come to some agreement. I'm not interested in indefinitely doing in the future what I have done to no avail for 17 years. The ball's in her court... and she's dropped it completely.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 06:33

Comment from: Julie [Member]

· http://special-needs.adoptionblogs.com/

NS- you got some wise responses here. I wondered about Kyle's role in all this as well. He obviously views things differently. May be time for you and hubby to have a discussion with him as well.

Your advisors are right...you are in a no-win situation and none of us have the solution either! But this time is supposed to be vacation - for you, too. So you need to do what will make it most like a vacation for you. If it's making it clear that she's not invited, then do it. If it's insisting she can come if she pays her way, then do it. If it's putting conditions on her attendance (like the clothing issue) then do that. If it's uninviting the whole clan and stealing away with hubby...hey, wait a minute, that would be my choice!

And you need to address that whole family manipulation thing will all your adult children. You don't need to be framed as the "bad guy".

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 07:22

Comment from: Justmemom [Member]

Amy's not the bad guy here. She WAS invited. Perhaps not by you, but she WAS invited.

You clearly don't want her on your vacation and I agree that you won't enjoy it if she comes. But she deserves to be treated respectfully. Perhaps another letter/card will allow you to put your feelings out there without having the awkwardness of a conversation. "Dear Amy, I understand that Kyle has invited you to join us for our vacation in Colorado. I wish that he had spoken to me before he did that and have told him so. The sad truth is that I do not want you to join us and I'd like to tell you why..."

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 07:24

Comment from: Chromesthesia [Member]

I don't know what to tell you...
That sounds like a difficult and frustrating situation....

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 07:36

Comment from: Sunbonnet Sue [Member]

Julie's advice is good. Jan's perspective is good too. Maybe call a brief family meeting with Kyle, Marie, and DH, decide what will work best for everyone, including you Nancy. Then have someone else (maybe Kyle?) deliver the decision verbally to Amy, and you write a letter similar to the one suggested by Justmemom? It's still a lot of work, even when they don't live at home, no?!

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 08:06

Comment from: CREAMPUFF_SUGAR [Member]

nancy,

Yuck! My stomach turns when I am in these situations. Like John, I agree, it's easy to give advice when you are not there or having lived through the YEARS you have. I guess I think sort of like Sunbonnet Sue, although I don't know if a family meeting is necessary. Just have Kyle "undo" what he did. It will be a good learning experience for him. Maybe he can tell Amy if she wants to come, that she needs to ask you directly and this might prove to be an opportunity to ask her what she thinks she needs to do to come. I know this is not the way with attached kids, but with unattached, I believe it is one of the ways to survive. Our son knows that he needs to ask what he needs to do to do a variety of things and participate in things in the house. Lots are freebies, but things like vacations are NOT. I sometimes use the language like "I would love for you to come and your will show me that you are STRONG ENOUGH by...Until then, I just feel that I am setting you up for failure. We would love for you to come and be apart of this when you are strong enough, honey" We didn't take our son on a vacation and the vacation we have planned in the next two weeks, which is shor--oh my goodness if it was as long as yours, absolutely NO WAY...you need to take care of yourself, take care of your self, take care of yourself...so that have some to give to the other members of your household, specifically your husband. When I think of the parable of the prodigal, I think that he showed his sorrow over their broken relationship by coming to the father directly in brokeness. Psalm 107 address this kind of brokeness.

My prayers are with you in this difficult and stressful situation, Nancy.

patricia

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 11:46

Comment from: Nancy Cozadd [Member]

{{{{Nancy}}}} Lots of hugs to you!

There is much wisdom in what is being said in response to your blog, whether or not that advice is in agreement with everyone else.

Since you are the target of so much of Amy's behaviour, it might be a long-term positive in the sea of negative to have Kyle approach Amy directly. He can then un- or modify the invite, and you don't have to even be mentioned. That way, Kyle learns an important lesson, and Amy can get a clear message.

As you say, the ball is in Amy's court. Leave it there! This is not handball or raquetball, which is played against an immovable wall. This is more like tennis or volleyball, which involves the active participation of at least 2 people, and lines which provide a place to stay within.

The Serenity Prayer, is, in my opinion, the perfect definition of how to set boundaries and effectively manage the minefield that is parenting a RADish: "God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and wisdom to know the difference."

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 13:36

Comment from: Kathleenb [Member]

Maybe more to add to Justmemom's letter (said or written in an oh-so-sweet tone/attitude: How nice that you wanted to join us for vacation, but I know how important it is for you to stay here and keep making money to support yourself. I wouldn't dream of interrupting that. I don't think Kyle realized how much you need the money/how important it is to you. I just can't let you sacrifice that just to be with us. We'll see you when we get back, and we'll have a family evening and share our pictures and stories with you then. Won't that be fun?

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 13:39

Comment from: Nancy Spoolstra [Member]

· http://attachment-disorder.adoptionblogs.com/

Kyle did not intend to open this can of worms. He didn't think, but he was "not thinking" just like any young man his age would... plus there are additional dynamics with a new wife who didn't grow up with Amy and who is trying but doesn't really get it yet.

It really was more like one sibling talking to another and assuming stuff they shouldn't.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 14:26

Comment from: scrapsbynobody [Member]

· http://scrapsbynobody.blogspot.com/

I worry about pouring the sweet on too thick, when I know I don't really mean it. Cheerfully firm seems to work best, without forcing me into a place where I am pretty certain I am lying.

As for Kyle, well in our house at least, no child is allowed to invite people on vacations without clearing it with Mom and Dad first. This just seems sort of obvious.

But the less obvious part is whether it is actually "inviting" when it is one sibling discussing plans with another, and assuming stuff they shouldn't.

Is this just another example of "horse" versus "zebra" thinking? I mean, did Kyle just think like any normal young guy would, and not really consider the can of worms he was opening up?

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 14:29

Comment from: scrapsbynobody [Member]

· http://scrapsbynobody.blogspot.com/

This is another interesting topic to explore when your blood pressure comes down. When young men or women marry into your family, and don't have the benefit of years of "living with it". It's kind of like dealing with extended family, but kind of different too. I have a new son-in-law who is very sweet, quiet, and non-confrontational. All the same, he does give us some odd looks over some of the things that go on here. My bio daughter (his wife), who is NOT a timid soul, is sure to set him straight later on, as she has total confidence in Mom and Dad. But I am sure this is an issue that many of us are dealing with, or will in the future. Any words of wisdom, or are you just beginning to sort it out?

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 15:22

Comment from: Nancy Spoolstra [Member]

· http://attachment-disorder.adoptionblogs.com/

That would be a great blog topic, and I am just beginning to sort it out myself. My personal wounds are too fresh for me to respond well to my DIL's questions or raised eyebrows. And my son is quick to side with his wife, and my DH hates to go against my son... making me even more the bad guy. It stinks all the way around.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 15:45

Comment from: eastern girl [Member]

Well, as far as Kyle and DIL go, I would just use the blood pressure thing. Wanting the entire family is nice, but you need to really relax and get that blood pressure down, and it probably wouldn't happen with Amy around. With Amy, I'd definitely go with the money angle-she wants to go to school but is behind on rent-you want her to go also, so she'll need to work rather than go on vacation. And maybe have sweet but clueless Kyle deliver the message.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 16:28

Comment from: Lindy [Member]

To me, this is a no-brainer. Amy clearly doesn't want to be a part of your life as a loving daughter; she simply wants to have the fun and excitment that goes along with family vacations. In life, we all must learn that effort equals reward. Amy is not willing to make the effort, uncomfortable as it may be to her, to have any kind of meaningful relationship with you. She wants to live on the fringes of your life and take whatever she finds valuable to her, the heck with the rest of it (responsibility, honesty, effort, empathy, etc.) You've paid your dues to her. Whatever she wants and needs from you she can receive by acting like a responsible, respectful adult. If she doesn't understand that concept now, maybe she will later. Then again, maybe not. Your responsibility as a parent to teach her is over. The guilt will always creep in; but you don't have to cave in.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 20:29

Comment from: Nancy Spoolstra [Member]

· http://attachment-disorder.adoptionblogs.com/

Yeh but, will she be working from sun-up to sun-down on Mother's Day? She didn't say, "I can't join you for church" or "I can't join you for brunch"... she said, "I CAN'T BE THERE AT ALL." She lives ten minutes away...

But I appreciate your perspective!

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 22:09

Comment from: nancyderen [Member]

My prayers are with you and your family. What a horrible, uncomfortable situation. I feel so badly for all of you. If Kyle spoke about the vacation with Amy and inadvertently made it sound as if she were invited, it coudl be very hurtful to her to be uninvited, but it can be so stressful to go on vacation with someone who is incapable of enjoying family time. As far as Mother's Day goes, having done shift work for many years in high school and college, I do know that it can be much harder to take off any holiday, including Mother's Day, than to take several days off when it's not a holiday, and usually the younger/less senior staff really don't have much choice about working holidays. Of course, most people would have called to tell you this. But I did want to put in my two cents worth that at least in that one area, it may very well be true that taking a vacation in June is not as hard to arrange as taking off Mother's Day.

Permalink 05/11/07 @ 22:09

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