"Are we expected to derive satisfaction from a relationship that by its very nature is not something we desire? How much change are we expected to make to motivate and/or heal a child who would rather do anything but “go deep”?"

Now hold on right there. The answer is yes, of course you are. You're the grownup. You wanted children. You chose to give birth or adopt or however you became a parent. You didn't do it only if you could have the perfect child, did you?

If I wanted a boy and got a girl am I expected to derive satisfaction from that relationship? Yup.

If I wanted an art-lover like myself and got a sport fanatic, am I expected to derive satisfaction from that relationship? You bet.

If I'm an introvert and got an extrovert, am I expected to derive satisfaction from that relationship? Uh huh.

And on and on and on. Isn't that what parents do? To take your thought farther then, since I can't derive that satisfaction, is it OK for me to blame the kid? Nope.

Please tell me I've misunderstood.

You have misunderstood. I wasn't very clear. If you read Katherine Leslie's book, When a Stranger Calls You Mom, she talks about how it is perfectly acceptable and perfectly normal for parents to need to get something out of the relationship too. Maybe not what they thought they would get, or even what they wanted, but something nevertheless... something that in some way, fills their tank, too. No relationship can go on indefinitely when one gives all the time and one takes all the time. I'm not talking about the parent liking art, the child liking swimming. Or the parent is an extrovert, the child is an introvert. I'm talking about a parent who really wants a RELATIONSHIP with a child, and a child who wants the opposite of that... superficiality, manipulation, whatever. When you pick a spouse, you pick someone who hopefully fills your tank in some way. And you fill your spouse's tank. That's a relationship. We don't pick our kids, per se, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect something from the relationship.

I spent 17 years trying to get past Amy's resistance to a relationship. No one tried harder than I did. My post above, and the question I asked, was... Is it reasonable to expect that I should MAKE myself be happy with superficiality, after 17 years of effort... should I continue to try and "go deep" when that is not what my daughter wants...? I don't think it is reasonable to put all the onus on parents to be ALL of the relationship.. to be the ONLY ones responsible for making it reciprocal. When a child is an infant, toddler or preschooler... yes. That's different. But I'm speaking from the 17 year mark, and the fact is, my daughter now bears a significant portion of the responsibility for making herself someone I want to "hang out" with. I am only interested in superficiality for a brief period of time...that doesn't satisfy me in a relationship. And sorry, but I have needs, too.

It is about our needs and our expectations. We are human and it is not evil to have needs. What do we do when we have a child who could connect/meet our needs but won't?

I've heard that expectations are just prepaid resentments. The thinking is, revise your expectations so that the other person can meet them. I did that with one of my adult sons. Result is that he always meets my expectation (standing and breathing unassisted) but I get absolutely no satisfaciton from our relationship. Kind of like eating after the dentist when your taste buds aren't working.

My view is that in any relationship, the needs of both people have to be met, at least to some minimum degree. I know with RAD, the child only makes a real change if they decide to take that leap of faith and try trusting, whatever limits they put on it. Do we have to be please and happy with a child who for years has refused to even try? I don't think so.

I'm with you John. You said it so well.

Well said John! I too am very unsatisfied with superficial relationships. And I also found that shifting expectations with regard to my son made me much happier, more peaceful AND took some of the power he tried to have over me. Standing and breathing unassisted is good for all. :-)