Nancy,

It is truly amazing that other people in other parts of our life are sane and fun can have their understanding so darkened in other parts.

It seems to me, and believe me I don't even pretend to understand your situation completely, but I do have two RADlets and do have misunderstandings, that the reader who said that you made a lifetime committment to your kids really is confusing it with a marriage vow. Where is the outrage over divorce?!!! Where is the outrage over what happened to the these kids PRIOR to the adoption. And why don't some of these people go and adopt a couple and experience life in the trenches for themselves?? My husband and I discussed way before we even happened on your site that we would find an apartment and pay six months of it to JUMPstart the child that appeared --at that time--to care very little about his life. He seems to be making progress, at this point, but right now, he is in the pits again as he mulls over the lies he has been told. My husband and I have been helped financially A LOT from both our parents. We would be still living where we are living, but we would have just had older cars and dug into our own saving more and had a bigger mortgage, and maybe had to dug into some investments, but they certainly didn't save us from our choices of living nigh to be on the street. I think it is easy for parents who have raised responsible kids and given to them financially to expect that their kids would do that for their own kids [grandkids], but what they miss so completely is it is really making a dependent child who refuses to grow up; it is one thing giving money to a responsible child, but to an irresponsible child who time after time and time after time AD Nauseum makes no efforts and just seems willing to subsist? Periodically I read stories about parents who made tough decisions and let their kids figure out how to climb out and most of those kids made it. I have a friend with a son who still doesn't get it and she had told me that bailing him out doesn't help a whit. They have stopped; but they haven't stopped having a relationship with him. I have found a truism: If it takes more than five minutes to explain it and they don't get it; they won't get it in five hours of explaining. Of course, I don't know what the answer is, but I do wonder if just letting them fuss and not contributing anything to the conversation maybe will reduce the fussing and it will die with lack of fuel?

This is, to me, the crux of it all: "And by the way, I'm not disowning her as my daughter. I'm here if she ever wants a family, a life, a modicum of responsibility. I'm just done caring far more about her life than she does. And so is my husband."

We don't stop loving, we simply paint a realistic picture of the relationship, set healthy boundaries, and stick to them.

Nancy,
I can sure relate, when it comes, to family that just refuse to and probably never will get it!

My sister and her husband, have come to the conclusion, that they could do a better job than us. Her husband asked to take my son to a large amusement park in their city, this summer, because they don't think he has any fun in our household. My year old niece said to me, "My dad says you won't let "T" go to Cedar Point with him. "T" never has any fun."

I explained to them that, my husband, his dad, took him to Six Flags, and he couldn't handle it. He went Bizerk: over stimulated, couldn't handle waiting in line, arguing to go on rides he was too small for, and he threw several tantrums. DH came home and was exhausted, for a week, from the physical and mental beating he took, while trying to show DS a good time. Sis and her hubby's response was, that "They are laid back, and let everything go, with Joshua (her stepson), and he turned out to be a great kid." My sister and her husband, have been educated by me, on his disorders. I always sensed they don't believe it. It really hurts, when I know, that they are questioning our parenting, and they believe, all would be well, if we were, "laid back, fun, and let everything go."

How I long for the sister, I grew up with, to support me, unconditionally. This hasn't happened, so other ATN mothers, have become my surrogate sisters.

Nancy, don't blame him for loving her. It's not about you. It's about him and her. Maybe he'll try, probably he'll fail. What's it to you? If he succeeds will it make you feel bad?

To me, this is different than what dubbamom expressed because she would be left to deal with the aftermath of a trip to the amusement park. You wouldn't. You've cut Amy out of your life--you wouldn't even smile and say hello to your daughter in Target as you probably did to a half a dozen people just walking in the door. It doesn't mean he has to cut her out of his.

My extended family doesn't get it. Not a bit. In fact, that's why on my way to dinner tonight with another mom who does because we both need each other right now. But that doesn't mean that they can't love my kid.

He's not suggesting HE try. He's suggesting WE do something else. Sometimes loving someone means you let them fail ... you don't enable them.

And you know, Justmemom, when you have spent 18 years pouring your heart out to a kid, a kid who still can't manage to smile at you after all that time, I hope you are quite successful in still smiling at them, even as you are walking in to clean up yet another mess. But until you have walked in my shoes, I'd think twice about being so critical. You have absolutely no idea how much I love this kid, how much I dread what lies ahead, how numb I have had to become in order to face it, and what a toll it has taken on my family. I rarely get defensive any more and I don't feel I have anything to defend, but I personally think you are pretty pollyanna about how relationships play out after 17 years of rejection. I gave and gave and gave and gave and gave. I have nothing left to give ... not even a smile.

See, that's the thing Nancy. You claim to love her. Yet everything you write about her says otherwise. Actions speak louder than words in my world. I'd certainly understand that you didn't love her anymore after what has gone on for so many years. You just won't admit it in a pollyanna sort of way. But it's a sick kind of love when it plays out as you describe.

You choose to write about it. I choose to comment on it.

"Actions speak louder than words in my world."

Which is why every time she's thrown me a bone I've been there, notwithstanding the fact that she turns away yet again. This is true no matter what my words say ... And you are, obviously, just reading my words, not living in my house. Have you been following my actions or just my words?

I wish you the best in your parenting journey, Justmemom. From where I sit, you have much to learn. I'll pray you don't have to learn it.

In reading "JustmeMom"'s words, I heard my sister-in-law's words to my husband about our lack-of-love parenting. . Can I say that I am GRATEFUL for 1500 miles of separation? We're not hearing much any more because our daughter has chosen more for her life; however, our son...well, when he is among persons like "JustmeMom", oh, my, he reads "someone-who-will-believe-my-pouty-expression" and he pours it on. It is people like "JustmeMom", and there were a lot of 'em at the grade school the kids attended last year who caused us to consider a more cloistered life. One of the "justmeMom"-types told me that she knew what would cure my son: school lunches. I said "go-for-it!". No this "justmeMom"-type told me that she refused to read my literature, call my therapist, and told me that she was AN EDUCATOR! [Just imagine hearing my heart *thrill* to that self-evident bit of swagger!]. When we decided to pull our son from school, this educator had refused to even tell us that she had kicked him out of her class. I hope "justmeMom" doesn't have to live with a RAD kid--or how about more fun? Live with two that were forced to do things to each other???--I dearly hope not. I wouldn't trade my two for anything, and I am grateful to you, Nancy, for your willingness to share so candidly. You have courage. I do so only periodically. I am grateful to homeschool, grateful for understanding neighbors, grateful for a church body who is confused why our better-behaved-than-anyone's-kids are not in children's Sunday and yet they accept what they don't understand. I would laugh at what "justmemom" said -- except these are very dangerous people. Because of these kind of people, we were going to be reported to CPS by the school; thankfully our son's homeroom teacher experienced everything we told him about our son and he defended us and said that everything they say about him is TRUE. Nancy I don't know how you handled having Amy in school with all the misunderstanding. Six months was all I could take.

Does Amy read what you write here on this blog?

"Does Amy read what you write here on this blog?"

I don't know, to be honest. I know she doesn't have a computer, doubtfully has access to one at a fast-food job, and wouldn't walk to the library to use one. So if she is, she is accessing it at a friend's house ... which is possible. I do know Tommy reads it ... and most of the rest of my family doesn't! (They lived it, don't need to read it!)

I don't write anything that I don't feel or don't experience, although I wish it wasn't my reality. I know Amy knows I love her, and I know Amy knows my frustration and hurt are off the charts. Neither fact is a secret. If she reads the blog, maybe she saw this one as well? Or this one? Or maybe this one? Or perhaps even this one?

Say what you will. I walk in the shoes of a mother with an attachment challenged child. I refuse to walk in the shoes of this little sorority here--the BITTER mother of an attachment challenged child who in order to believe that it's not my fault (and it's not) has to believe that it my child's fault (it's not). These children are not evil. It's a different way of looking at my child, through the eyes of love and not fear and not control. Most of you will never ever get it.

If you read of Amy's history, including her life before Nancy and her genetics, to say that she chooses anything is ridiculous. She says I know what to do I just don't want to do it. Do you hear the FEAR in that statement? Probably not. I do.

Best regards.

I read this in another blog, and it summarized my feelings exactly:


"Figuratively we reach out to a child or children, offer them the security of our embrace, grasp their wrists to help pull them from what they have faced. Our strength and anchoring ability can give them the opportunity they need to find safety. Some children accept our firm grasp, use it to their benefit and find what they need for a happy, contented life. Other children feel our grasp, even when in the face of imminent demise, and refuse to be so reached. They reach up with their other hands, pry our fingers away, and tell us in myriad ways that they would rather "die" than accept our offered attempts to save their lives.

I remain more convinced than ever that parents of children with attachment issues need to extend the grasp. We cannot wait for the child or children to reach out to us, we need to take that initiative, whether they want our presence or not in their lives. Parents must be the initiators, and we must hang on tightly, even when their determined fingers attempt to pull away from our grip.

But I remain more convinced than ever of a second thing, too. While parents are the anchor, and while parents must be the initiators of security and kindness, the child must choose to accept the gift offered. The child has a responsibility to benefit from the parents' care, but it is a choice he or she must make. Ultimately, the one who cares the least in any relatioship (parental or otherwise) has the most power, because she or he is the one who decides what to do with the offered gift.

As an adoptive parent I have experienced both reactions. There are children in my life who have accepted (not always as a first response, nor as a consistent one, but a general one) my offered "grasp" on their lives, used my anchored place to propel themselves forward and are finding success in life. This warms my heart. And I have other children who, for whatever reason, have done everything in their power to peel my loving hands away from their furtive wrists. They find life difficult, but probably do not make the connection between their rejection of opportunity and their circumstances. In any case, my task as a parent will to be always offering my anchored support, my parental grasp of love, even if some are unable or unwilling to receive its benefits."

Amy is so young, chronologically and emotionally. I wouldn't blame her, or give up on her, just yet.

Nancy,

I don't get the critical tone and words of justmemom.

If she thinks about it a minute, she will realize that LOVING a child doesn't mean you have to always like what they do, or even like them sometimes.

Sometimes you have to protect your heart in order to open it up again.

You know your daughter best of anyone, so I say, follow your heart.

My situation isn't exactly the same, or even close to the same, I don't think. But to hold out a little hope for you...

My DD was failing high school. She went to an alternative high school, where she met some other kids just like her--nice, but vulnerable. They got into the usual trouble, and it got to a point where I locked her out of the house if I wasn't home. And if she wasn't in by my bedtime, well, sometimes she slept on the lounge chairs by the neighborhood pool, or in a car with her boyfriend.

She did graduate from high school, and had a couple of short-term jobs, but spent most of the last seven months or so not doing much.

However, she got motivated in May to get a job, she's working in a retail store, and loves it so much, she's planning to make a career in retail. She voluntarily gives me half of every paycheck, does a fair share of work around the house, and tells me she loves me.

Now, if her younger sister would just come around...

"See, that's the thing Nancy. You claim to love her. Yet everything you write about her says otherwise. Actions speak louder than words in my world."

I disagree. Loving somebody means doing what is best for them, and what is best is not always warm and fuzzy.

What is best for an adult is to give her the opportunity to stand on her own two feet. If Nancy continues to bail Amy out by paying her rent, etc., she is not giving Amy much credit for having the intelligence to figure out how to pay her own bills. Continually bailing her out encourages Amy to be dependent upon her mother, and it robs her of the opportunity to learn how great it feels to learn how to budget your own money and become self-sufficient.

How did any of us learn how to become self-sufficient? We did it by paying our bills or suffering the consequences. I pay my light bill, and my electricity works. I fail to pay my light bill, and I have no power. I believe that Amy is intelligent enough to learn this life lesson, and it is an insult to her to assume that she is not capable of figuring this out for herself.

- Faith

"You claim to love her. Yet everything you write about her says otherwise. Actions speak louder than words in my world. I'd certainly understand that you didn't love her anymore after what has gone on for so many years. You just won't admit it in a pollyanna sort of way. But it's a sick kind of love when it plays out as you describe."

Nancy CLAIMS to love her daughter? Just because it is not your version of love.... I have seen her weep with those who weep, and mourn with those who mourn - because she is (and has) been there.

It was not a loving and fearful child who tried to throw me down a flight of stairs, necessitating yet another phone call to the police. It was not a loving and fearful child who put his little brother in a headlock, and banged his head against a wall. Was it fear when he woke up in the middle of the night, hooked up his father's work computer, and accessed porn sites? How about when he snuck a spare computer into his room, and dismantled it?

DS eventually became a guest of the state. It was the loving thing to do by letting him go there. As Faith (she writes such aewsome posts!) says, loving someone measns doing what is best for them, and that is not always warm and fuzzy.

Nancy loves her daughter completely and unconditionally - but honestly.