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Reactive Attachment Disorder Blog

05/27/07

Interview with Nancy Thomas

Posted by : Nancy Spoolstra in Reactive Attachment Disorder Blog at 10:00 am , 1635 words, 1157 views  
Categories: Interviews, Nancy Thomas
Nancy ThomasI have nothing but the utmost respect for Nancy Thomas and the work she does for and on behalf of troubled children and their families. I thought you might enjoy hearing some of Nancy's perspectives about our lives in the trenches.


Setting the tone for this interview, what is the first thing you want to tell the readers about who you are and what you do?


I am a mom, that is my highest title. I also coach, support and encourage other parents who live with emotionally disturbed children. I teach therapists, social workers, case workers, GAL’s and people through the juvenile justice system to give them effective tools to help families and children. I specialize in bonding and conscience development. I firmly believe that attachment is at the root of most mental illness. A lot of researchers out there are finding that to be true. It is under diagnosed not over diagnosed and is a huge issue for our children and our county.

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How long have you been working with traumatized and attachment-affected children?


Since 1974. I worked for large agency for ten years alongside Foster Cline as a licensed therapeutic foster mom. I worked with some of the toughest children in the country and some of the best professionals in the country so I fine-tuned my parenting program out of survival and necessity because the kids were in my house! The more I worked with them the more passionate I became because I loved to watch them heal. Then I realized taking the child away from the parent and then sending them home was heartbreaking for the parents, the child and me. In 1995 I started working with the family so they didn’t have to send the child away and parents had more tools to use at home. Parents could get help before it was so late and they were so burned out they had to get someone else to do it. No one does it as well as the parent, including me. I have no more talent than any other mom, just more experience. Two hands and one heart—same tools. When parents know how to use those tools they can turn the child around without traumatizing them by sending them away.


How have the children (and/or parents) changed in that time frame?


More children with larger issues, deeper level of damage done to them before they get help. More drugs, more alcohol, more teen pregnancies, more time back with birth parents who are not ready to parent. By the time we start helping them it is more difficult. Adoptive parents, for some reason, seem to be waiting longer to get help. I think it is because there are people out there saying "they will get over it, just wait." But the kids don’t get better, they get sicker every day when they don’t get help and parents are more exhausted.



How has society changed in its ability to address these issues and support the parents?



The general public has become more negative about the care for the child that is necessary to help them. People become “educated” about attachment disorders through misrepresentations in the media and that has caused a tremendous amount of problems for parents looking for help.


As a society more parents are parenting out of guilt; we are more over indulgent. Buying more stuff to keep children busy. Lots of isolation… 60% of kids in the US have a TV in their room. Kids are isolated and not part of the family and the bottom line is there isn’t a family. They are nuking their own food, standing at the microwave eating alone and spending 6.5 hours/day on computers video games and TV. They are not interacting with their family or developing relationship skills. This is very, very destructive and scary.



What is your biggest concern right now about how things are going in our country?


The price of treatment for an emotionally disturbed child has gotten higher and funding available to help families has gotten lower and harder to find, so this lack of funding has prevented children from getting the help they need.



What do you think parents most need to know?

Attachment does not just happen, it doesn’t just appear out of the air, it takes time and energy and commitment. There is nothing more important for the child… absolutely nothing… not a shopping spree or time at Disneyland … nothing better than time spent with the parent one on one, laughing and learning to love. That is what we should be investing in.



What do you think social workers most need to know?


Social workers need to have an entire course on attachment, attachment issues, RAD, and the required treatment. I think they should each adopt a child but then it would be a few years down the road before they would be able to help anybody! They need to support the parents. Bottom line is they need enough training to be able to support the parents. All the questioning and doubting and negative stuff they do cause more damage to the family. Many disruptions have been caused by social workers and not the child. And that is so wounding to the child and the family. There are some great social workers out there doing some fantastic work. Unfortunately the flip side of the coin is young, untrained social workers doing great harm.


Nancy
How do you define "attachment therapy"?


Attachment therapy is treatment by a mental health professional that puts the parent and the child together. It connects or reconnects their hearts. It does not involve bonding to the therapist in any way. That has caused triangulation in a lot of families. It is done by a mental health professional that is trained to do the therapy. A therapist cannot be trained in a weekend seminar they go listen to, or through a book they read. They go through hundreds of hours of training in order to be qualified to treat these deeply wounded children.




How do parents know if they found the right therapist?


If the therapist tried to take child in other room and close the door and leave the parent out, the therapist is absolutely clueless about RAD. The very act of doing that says they do not know how to treat the child and they do not understand the child they are attempting to treat. It also gives you a high indication of the low IQ of the therapist. You have to have a very low IQ to choose to be alone in a room with a child who very likely will make false allegations against you! An attachment educated therapist knows that it is easier for the child to tell the truth if the parent is in the room. It is very easy to lie when the person you are lying to doesn’t have the information to know what the truth really is. And the truth needs to be the center of the therapy.



What is your number one goal for “our kids” and “our parents”?


My number one goal is that they can live happily ever after. They let go of the pain and the anger and destruction that they put in the relationship and just be able to look forward and laugh and enjoy their relationship with each other. This applies to both parents and children.



Is there anything else you would like to address?


Something I would really, really like to see is that parents of children with attachment disorder be honored. They are unbelievably amazing. You know that song, The Impossible Dream… these parents live the impossible dream. They are out there fighting an unbeatable fight, doing all this unbelievable loving to someone who hates their guts, destroys their home and takes all the fun out of life… these parents keep on looking for resources, fighting the fight. They get spit on by mental health professionals that are supposed to be helping them, attacked by the government, stabbed in the back by their own families, kicked when they are down by the community. Most people have no idea how much love these parents put out there. It breaks my heart. When I work with parents they tell me the stuff the child is doing and ask for ideas… and then they tell me their deepest pain, and it comes from all the people around them who should be supporting and uplifting them but instead are adding to the burden.


People need to know that children can heal. Once they have the tools and they have a good mental health provider on their team, children can do it. Every foster parent, every adoptive parent should have comprehensive training in bonding and attachment before they have the child.



What about working outside the home?


When they bring a child in that has heartbreak, that child needs intensive care. Intensive care involves a parent committed to their healing just as if the child had undergone a physical heart transplant. The child would need a parent by their bedside meeting their needs if they had experienced a major physical illness. For six months to a year the parent’s focus needs to be on helping the child recover from what they have been through, and that means being home to accomplish that goal.



How do you think Anjelina Jolie will fare?


I hope she calls us soon because she will be a great spokesperson. Her children have had their hearts broken and they are wounded and they are going to need help. And she’s the kind of person who will look for that help. She’s a powerful lady. Too bad Oprah isn’t planning to adopt… how’s that for a powerful lady?

Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: Lindy [Member] Email
What a wonderful interview! Nancy hits the nail on the head when she states that the community, mental health professionals and even family members miss the boat when it comes to any understanding of what parents go through parenting a RAD child. It would even be nice if some of them would admit that they don't understand, but would be willing to help in ANY way they could in moving this child along productively. So much harm is done when THEY think THEY know the answer, and end up hurting the child through ignorance or judgment.
The fight continues!
PermalinkPermalink 05/27/07 @ 12:32
Comment from: Kelly [Member] Email · http://fost-adopt.adoptionblogs.com
I love Nancy!!! I may need to copy this and send it to several workers that I know.
PermalinkPermalink 05/27/07 @ 14:22
Comment from: Cindy Bodie [Member] Email · http://older-child.adoptionblogs.com
Great post!
PermalinkPermalink 05/27/07 @ 17:17
Comment from: Deb Donatti [Member] Email · http://open.adoptionblogs.com
Good interview!
If you don't mind I am going to print this out to take to my MC+ hearing. The SW has already started acting like we need to be investigated because of middle child's behavior. I told her you just do not understand RAD. Having to point out how our child should not lose her state insurance (read my post on that!) because then she will lose her current mental health coverage has only stood to have them raise a suspicious eyebrow at our family to see if we are just poor parents. It is very frustrating!
PermalinkPermalink 05/27/07 @ 21:02
Comment from: nancyderen [Member] Email
Great interview! I've loved what I've read by and about Nancy Thomas, especially the humor she seems to be able to bring to working with kids. Humor is very important to me and my daughter, but I'm not sure I'd still be laughing as much if I had more than one RAD kid on my hands! I really like the emphasis on the need to spend TIME with the child and not STUFF!
PermalinkPermalink 05/28/07 @ 10:46
Comment from: Chromesthesia [Member] Email
She's really sensible and awesome...
PermalinkPermalink 05/28/07 @ 11:42
Comment from: Nancy Cozadd [Member] Email
Nancy Thomas was one of those who saved my sanity.... she, ATN and Deb Hage offered advice sprinkled with liberal doses of humor. The fact that all of these resources came from parents who had experience parenting challenging children simply added credibility and practicality for me.

And for these resources to still be here after so many years, constantly improving and persevering, speaks volumes about the kind of people they are. The service they have done is immeasurable.
PermalinkPermalink 05/28/07 @ 12:06
Comment from: CREAMPUFF_SUGAR [Member] Email
Great interview, Nancy! I can't even BEGIN to imagine where we would be if we had not heard of Nancy Thomas before we adopted our sibling group of two....A couple who adopted a sibling group of four through our agency urged us to get Nancy Thomas materials and wondered why on earth our agency doesn't recommend Nancy Thomas materials to everyone who adopts.
patricia
PermalinkPermalink 05/28/07 @ 17:14
Comment from: cindy51534 [Member] Email
nancy thomas trained 35 of us parents to beable to present her parenting program. ADVANCED PARENTING for CHALLENGING CHILDREN. it was so wonderful to find a way to parent that was fun AND WORKED for my kids. i totally agree parents are adopting a dream, later they find out the child wasn't told the same story so the "dream" can become a nightmare!!
i have been giving classes to a few support groups. the parents need support!! some parents need a little more information on children that have been abused...
nancy is exactly right that young social workers just out seem to still believe the book learned methods are the only answer... they haven't found out kids tear up books!! kids didn't read the boo to know they are to be feeling loved so there is no need to "pee and poop-out" their feelings. the rages that break walls, windows, toys and hearts. the killed pets and small animals...
parents that want to adopt need this information also. the older child, the orphanages AND THE given-up birth adoptions too. babies bond inside the mom... they know what mom smells like and her voice so they have lots of trama too.
adoptive parents have trama and that darn dream adoption that causes the feeling of "i missed it". there was an adopted girl and her mom i was writing to and providing some parenting ideas and support... the little girl told her mom "I WILL never be the little girl YOU WANT!" (the little girl was right however.she knew what she was living and it wasn't all of what the mom was telling me) one of the things the little girl had complained about is her mom lies, "mom said we'd go back to this church and we never have. mom said people there say bad things so we can't go to that church"... i suggested to mom they could go to the building (church) (sit in their car if need be) and talk to God out loud. tell God where they were going to church now and why, let God know where to find them (the little girl needed that even though God already knows) the building to her was important and telling God infront of that building was big for the girl.mommy fixed her lie!! later mom and dad decided they couldn't .... they disrupted the adoption.
had they found out what adoption really was like wiht a child already labled rad i wonder if things would have been diffrent... this attachment stuff is huge!!
PermalinkPermalink 05/29/07 @ 14:30
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